Centralized to Decentralized Blockchain System | Tieshun Roquerre, CEO of Namebase (FTC 13)

Categories: InterviewsPublished On: January 26th, 202129 min read

Centralized to Decentralized Blockchain System | Tieshun Roquerre, CEO of Namebase (FTC 13)

FinTech Chat (FTC) is a series of educational & informative interviews with world professionals in the FinTech / Crypto / Blockchain communities. We aim to provide content that is digestible in multiple mediums such as video, audio (podcast), and written (blog) form!


FTC Episode 13 – In this episode, Blockchain Wayne interviews Tieshun Roquerre, the CEO of Namebase, which is a top-level domain (TLD) name registrar that operates on the Handshake blockchain. They aim to shift the architecture from a centralized structure with ICANN at the top to a decentralized blockchain system that does not have any organization in control of it. The issuance is controlled entirely on-chain through this open auction system. And it makes the domain name system resistant to censorship and seizure which is a critical issue on the existing domain system today.

Note: This transcript was automatically generated by artificial intelligence (AI) and therefore typos and grammatical errors may be present.


Intro: Interviews on Crypto, Blockchain with your host, Blockchain Wayne on FTC



BLOCKCHAIN WAYNE: Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of Fintech Chat. Today I’m excited to be joined by Tieshun. Tieshun is the CEO and Co-founder of Namebase. Some very interesting topics you’re gonna learn about in this interview today between his company, their company Namebase and what they’re looking to do and also about the Handshake protocol. So we’ll jump into all of that. Tieshun, thanks for joining us today for this interview, man. It’s a pleasure to have you here. (TIESHUN ROQUERRE: Thanks for having me) Awesome, awesome. So I always start out with guests man. I like to know your history, so let we’re going to get to Namebase and all the exciting things that that’s happening there, but tell me some more about… about what led you to this space, to crypto, to blockchain and into where you are now today in your spot with Namebase? 


TIESHUN ROQUERRE: Yeah totally. You know, my… my background actually started in engineering. I was originally a software engineer at a company called Teespring and… and it’s kind of an atypical history. I had actually dropped out of high school to work at Teespring when I was about 16. So you know originally from Boston moved out to San Francisco, was working there and they’re just a tech company that basically made it really easy to sell T-shirts online so it’s kind of this like weird fringe thing. But they were doing you know a million dollars in revenue every year which was kind of crazy. You just think about how many T-shirts you need to sell to do that. But I worked there for a year and then ended up starting my own company called StrongIntro which was a recruiting startup and we ended up going through this startup accelerator called Y combinator which is like fairly well known in Silicon Valley. They also funded… you know, Reddit, Airbnb, Dropbox, Doordash… you know, a bunch of the companies going public this year, which was really cool. So I got to go and do that for a year and then decided I kind of want to go and… you know, study a little bit more in school so I applied for got into MIT, was very fortunate to do that. And that’s actually where I met my co-founder Anthony. So Anthony was one of my buddies from MIT. We worked on projects together and that was around early in 2018 that we started exploring a bunch of different crypto projects and we’re just kind of looking at the space seeing what was interesting and we had actually randomly happened upon Handshake because Eric Meltzer who goes by @wheatpond on Twitter. He was an investor in Handshake and was like: Hey this protocol is really cool. You guys should check it out and then we kind of put our engineering hats on. We read through the white paper and just based on our engineering background. We basically fell in love with Handshake because basically in a nutshell what Handshake does is it takes the existing domain name system which… you know, for example if you’re on reddit.com or google.com, those .com domains are domain names in the domain name system and the architecture of that system is actually fairly centralized at the root of it. There’s this organization called ICANN which basically controls all the TLD name space. And they get to tell… you know, control who gets what TLD and there are numerous issues with… you know ICANN governing the DNS, domain name system on its own in addition to the issues of just the architecture of the DNS being centralized. But basically what Handshake does is it shifts the architecture from being this like centralized architecture with ICANN at the top to decentralized blockchain system that doesn’t have any organization in control of it. The issuance is controlled entirely on chain through this open auction system. And it makes the domain name system actually resistant to censorship and seizure which is something that is really a huge issue on the existing domain system today. So we found out about it by through Eric. And we were reading the white paper and we basically just fell in love with it because just as engineers… you know, most engineers don’t know too much about the domain name system, but everyone’s kind of worked with it in some form. And so we knew enough about it to be like, okay, wow this is something that has a lot of potential and that was kind of the impetus for Namebase, because you realize this… you know, our very esoteric protocol that’s going to be hard for normal people to use. You would need some way to make it easy for everyone to go and… you know, on ramp basically to the ecosystem, get the Handshake coins, get the Handshake names. And that’s why we decided to go and build Namebase to make it really easy for anyone to use. 



BLOCKCHAIN WAYNE: Yeah man, hey I love that story. That’s… that’s especially 2018. I mean you guys kind of did what I was doing in 2018 which was… you know, all most people know about 2018 is when the markets were crashing price wise, right? And I was doing the same thing, I was traveling around looking at what was being built in the space. And that’s when… you know, the projects that were being built and what was being developed showed that there was a bright future regardless all the doom and gloom that people were talking about with price crashing, right? 


TIESHUN ROQUERRE: Yeah 100% the… really the time that we got most into it was like the worst time in terms of price. We didn’t get any of that like… you know, when moon, lambo, etc, kind of price rise. For us the reason why we got in was just because just as engineers, we saw the technology and kind of understood the potential there. And you know, we have… we have a faith. We had a faith at the time that I was like, the… the world would increasingly need this. Our thesis was that knowing the history of the internet. It started as a very decentralized internet, actually a lot of the early… you know, internet ogs were basically like cyberpunks. But then over the last… you know, a few decades, what’s happened is as the internet has grown in power. There have also been… you know, companies that basically consolidated that power, so they now became more powerful, but also more consolidated. And we were starting to see issues with that. You know, Wikipedia was blocked in Twitter. Sorry, Wikipedia was blocked in Turkey. And you know, a bunch of really important resources around the world are blocked, basically every country in the world engages in DNS censorship. And then we’re also seeing a lot of the issues with having… you know, platforms and individuals right, like just the power that like Jack Dorsey has on Twitter. He can just silence the President of the United States. So we’re just thinking through that we’re like, okay this is actually only going to get worse. And if you look at the trend, it just only gets worse. And then three years later, we’re basically seeing that trend come to fruition. And now it’s basically this huge wave that everyone is aware of. So that’s why we got into it. And it’s been both… you know, unfortunate for the world but also unfortunate for the blockchain ecosystem to see that happen because that’s really why this stuff was all created right. Bitcoin was created in the wake of the 2008 financial crisis, so you usually need these massive all to succeed. 


BLOCKCHAIN WAYNE: Yeah yeah, it’s… you know, it’s funny because you almost feel like a prophet in the beginning. Because you’re telling people what you’re building are, you looking forward to what the world needs. And most of the world doesn’t even realize it yet. And then they start to realize it. You know, I’ve been telling people for years about the issues with fiat currencies in the US dollar and… and just the whole banking system. And the same people that told me I was crazy four or five years ago are now seeing these massive… you know, the massive printing of the dollar. And they’re realizing the problem is no different than people are starting to see the same thing with censorship. And you know, I’ll just call it out. I know a lot of people like to make things political. I’m not a very… I don’t like to… I don’t really like either side of the political debate. But at the same time, you’re right whether you agree with someone saying or not censorship, you know can lead to some dark roads. 


TIESHUN ROQUERRE: Yeah 100. It’s really if you look at every… you know authoritarian regime in the world both in the present and also historically… you know, the first thing that they do is they… they cut off one the… the flow of… of value, they cut off money. And then they also right, they seize the banks or seize your bank accounts, and then also they cut off the flow of information. They either make it impossible to get the information out or they introduce such strict punishments for sharing information, right. If you think about even just the Covid, right, the… the doctors who are basically the whistleblowers on that in China were punished severely for that. and so not only does that punish the individual doctor. But then you know, if something like that would happen in the future, you can bet that people now have to second guess, because they know that if they actually share that information, there is a punishment on the other side of doing that, even if it’s good for the world. So you know, the issues with censorship is something that’s really foundational to society, because information flows are one of the highest leverage points of control in terms of influencing a system. And that’s really what we’re trying to enable with Handshake is the ability for information to flow, so that people can actually go and get the word out when they need to. 



BLOCKCHAIN WAYNE: Nice nice, okay, so let’s jump right in, so tell us… tell us more about Namebase and what they… you know, what they… what they can offer? Why someone would want to look into what Namebase can do? 


TIESHUN ROQUERRE: Yeah totally, so you know, I would say if Namebase itself is not the interesting thing, it’s really Handshake if you’re interested in Handshake, if you’re just want to check it out, we’re trying to learn more about it and just… you know, play around with it, then that’s when you would go and use Namebase. Because basically on Handshake, you have the ability to register top level domain extensions, so for example dot com dot io dot net. These are all different TLDs… you know, these domain extensions and normally it’s actually not really possible to own these things, or it’s very very difficult, it costs millions of dollars. There’s a whole process and what Handshake lets you do is it lets you register a TLD extension on the Handshake protocol. So for example you could potentially get dot wayne on Handshake. And then you can give yourself blockchain.wayne as a domain name. But you basically own that extension and the registration for that basically involves this auction process where you have to use Handshake coins to go and bid on the name. And anyone can go and bid on that. It all happens on chain on the blockchain. And when you win it, you don’t actually pay out to anyone, you don’t pay a Namebase or any organization. Those coins actually get burned. But without getting too much into the details of how that works, if you just go on Namebase, you’re going to any domain page and there’s a explainer video at the bottom. But basically, if you’re trying to… you know, start using Handshake, you want to get the Handshake coins and you want to start bidding on the names, and that’s what you can do on Namebase. We have an exchange and an on-ramp, so that you can go and… you know, if you’re in the US, you can use… you know, your bank account to go and get some Handshake coins. If you’re outside of US, you can… you know, get it with bitcoin on Namebase, and then from there, you can go and bid on the names. And then after you own the name, we then have some tools that make it really easy for you to… you know, set up a website on the name, or if you’re trying to monetize, there’s a marketplace where you can sell the name. And you kind of think of Handshake names as NFTs effectively. And the… the super interesting thing about that is that just the… the value of them has been increasing really exponentially over the past six months. It’s been growing, the marketplace volume has been growing at 55% month over month. Just last month or maybe it was this month, actually a name sold for 190000 HNS, which is about… you know, 30000 dollar. So just the value of these names have been increasing at a… a really stunning rate, and now there’s an entire economic ecosystem involved here. But then there’s also more and more tooling in terms of what you can do with your name, right. You can create a decentralized website and we have tools for that. So that’s really what you’d want to use Namebase for. 



BLOCKCHAIN WAYNE: Awesome, yeah, I mean after reading about it and hearing you talk, I can’t wait to try it out and test it out, so we can… like you mentioned, so you can, on Namebases website, you can buy the HNS, the Handshake tokens. (TIESHUN ROQUERRE: That’s correct!) Awesome. All right, so what as far as Handshake, are you guys involved in the development of Handshake? Are you just a… just utilize their protocol to build out Namebase? What’s your affiliation with… with the Handshake? 


BLOCKCHAIN WAYNE: Yeah, great question. So you can kind of think of Namebase as a combination of Coinbase and Godaddy on top of Handshake. And the interesting thing about Handshake is that there’s actually no official team or foundation. The initial launch of Handshake was involved a 10 million dollar fundraise from a bunch of VCs like A16z and Sequoia and Greylock. And interestingly all 10 million dollars was donated away to different open source internet organizations. So the EFF, GNU, the free software foundation, all of these organizations basically received the entirety of the 10 million dollars. And… and then the foundation that raised that money was dissolved, and so it’s, this really open decentralized protocol and effectively the entire community. If you’re… you know, if you join the community, you’re a director of Handshake and everyone can basically just go and contribute, and you know, contribute source code or… you know, contribute sweat equity write contribute labor on their own. And so you know Namebase, we’ve submitted us a poll request to Handshake, but really you can think of us as community members and directors of Handshake, just like… just like everyone, if you start getting involved in Handshake, if you just use android, you too can call yourself a director of Handshake. And it’s really open for anyone to participate in. 


BLOCKCHAIN WAYNE: Okay nice, now you mentioned there’s no foundation, there is… there if someone wants to develop on Handshake, I was… I saw some some around the airdrop is that available for people that want to develop on… you know, with Handshake? 


TIESHUN ROQUERRE: Yeah so Handshake, the launch had a really interesting air jack mechanism. Basically what was done is and this is coded into the protocol itself. So it can’t really be changed at this point which is if you were a developer that had a github account, then you can go through this claim process and the github account needs to meet a few requirements. Basically as of 2018, it needed to be active and have over 15 followers, so there’s basically like a snapshot of all those github accounts taken that was encoded into the protocol. So people can just go and you know create fake accounts, stock public accounts later on, but effectively, if you’re a developer, you can go and actually claim about 4200 Handshake coins, which is about 500$ worth of the HNS. And that’s… that’s liquid you can just go and claim that and sell it if you want, or use that and if you’re a developer, you can go to Namebase.io/airdrop and we have instructions on how to claim those coins. But that’s basically what the airdrop is it’s kind of meant to incentivize developers to check out the protocol but it’s kind of a hit or miss right. It’s like if you… if you had an account in 2018 that meant those requirements, then you get it and then if not then you don’t get it. And this is kind of a static list like that. 



BLOCKCHAIN WAYNE: Gotcha gotcha, so with… so when it comes to Namebase and some of the things that your team’s developing, is there… is there any kind of… is there a road map for future developments and what you have so far? From what I could see from the site, what you explained is amazing but what’s the future of for Namebase look like? 


TIESHUN ROQUERRE: Yeah totally, so the future of Namebase is very much oriented around serving the community and the ecosystem. So you know what… what we’re seeing now is this massive trend towards decentralization in the world… you know, I mentioned this before. It started… starting with bitcoin after the 2008 financial crisis. You know, then we see Ethereum and then now in 2021, we’re seeing… you know, it’s crazy like even signal which was this fringe… you know, communications app that only a few… you know, maybe like journalists and techies and… you know, crypto punks would use cyberpunks would use. Now it’s going mainstream and their growth if you see it on Twitter, it’s like it was like flat or relatively flat and then, now it’s like vertical and so we’re seeing this like crazy thing where there’s this massive trend towards decentralization. And Handshake as a protocol is basically the first layer if you think about… you know, using the internet, you go into your browser, you type in your domain name of a website, you’re trying to go to right facebook.com, google.com, youtube whatever. And that layer of the internet is still very centralized and it needs to be decentralized. And so we see this really amazing opportunity in time where there’s this kind of cultural zeitgeist around censorship, that is perfect for Handshake to go and solve. And so what we’re doing is really making investments into the ecosystem. We’re improving the developer documentation for Handshake. We’re creating example apps… you know, inspiring apps in terms of what you can do with your Handshake name. So for example, one of the things that we released recently was this app called d-links, which is kind of like this decentralized link tree. Basically what you can do is you don’t have to be a developer, it’s like no code, no code tool and within like 30 seconds, you can create a page with all your links. And just… and it’s hosted on skynet which is a decentralized storage layer. And then the naming is done through Handshake, so you actually have this end-to-end fully decentralized website. And you can actually go and visit that in your browser even if you don’t have Handshake resolution set up on your computer. There’s a gateway at hns.to and you just go to kc.hns.to or tieshun.hns.to or nb.hns.to and that’ll actually show you, it’ll render the decentralized Handshake site for you. So basically what we’re doing is creating better tooling for developers to go and onboard into the ecosystem and create cool apps. And then we’re also creating more tools to make it easier for end users to actually access the sites. Brave – Brendan Eich recently tweeted that Brave is has a plan for integrating Handshake, which is super exciting and… and that’ll make it really easy. Because now you don’t have to install anything or change any settings, you just use Brave and you’ll be able to access the sites. And then also just within Namebase itself, we’re working on just making it a lot easier to access Handshake. I would say right now you can think of it as we have all the parts, but we can still make things a lot more frictionless. We’re going to add a lot more… you know grease to make things run even better, making the on-ramp even easier, making it so that international customers can purchase with usd, making the marketplace even easier to use and making the tools for what to do with your Handshake name a lot more powerful. So that’s really what the roadmap is. 



BLOCKCHAIN WAYNE: Nice, all sounds like some exciting stuff and yeah, I mean that’s, that’s the biggest thing with developing the space right now is there’s a lot of great projects out there. This one looks to be one as well but as those user interfaces improve that’s what we’re gonna see really users flock in. I always compare it to email. I don’t know if you ever do that to people think about sending an email in the 90s, if you… if you look at it, it was you almost had to be a computer programmer to be able to do it (TIESHUN ROQUERRE: Yeah) Now a grandmother can do it with the swipe of a finger on an ipad, so it’s definitely… you know, definitely something that… that’s going to bring a lot of people into the space. 


TIESHUN ROQUERRE: That’s that’s a great analogy. That’s actually that is an analogy we use which is… you know, if you think about web browsers themselves, right, that was used by researchers initially in the early days. And then netscape came around, it was really the first consumer friendly web browser and blew up the internet. And then email you needed hotmail and gmail for it to really break out. And then now with Handshake, you have this decentralized DNS, which is really just the the gateway, the entry point to the decentralized web, right, which I think is an even you know larger macro trend that we’re seeing. And in order for that to break out, you need even… you know, even better tooling, even easier interfaces, and so that’s really what we’re trying to do with Namebase, is making Handshakes super easy to use. So that even if you’re someone that… you know, isn’t technical or you don’t want to spend hours just researching how to set up this technology, you can just go and… you know, click a few buttons and you’re there and then now you have access to this new decentralized internet. 



BLOCKCHAIN WAYNE: Nice nice, I’m sure another question a lot of people may have back to the Handshake protocol real quick, so Handshake we hear a lot about different projects in the space and some of them being having their own native chain and others just being tokens on an existing chain, what ecosystem is Handshake in? 


TIESHUN ROQUERRE: Yeah, so Handshake is its own proof of work-based blockchain. And the interesting thing about Handshake is the… the model that has is very similar to Bitcoin. And that is you know utxo based blockchain, right. You have miners mining to add each block onto the chain and the… there naturally always comes a question about security, right. If you have your own proof of work based blockchain, how secure can that be. And interestingly enough for a Handshake in terms of the security, it’s actually very very secure more more so than a normal proof of work-based blockchain should be, which is… you know, what’s… what’s the biggest issue that you think of when you think about approved work-based blockchains. Ii’s the 51 attack right? That’s… that’s the concern that everyone has it’s like, okay what’s the how much does it cost to do a 51 attack and that is something that is an issue because if you have an exchange and then someone… you know, let’s say you’re using a blockchain for a value, right, you’re using a coin as a store of value. And you have an exchange then someone can spend their coin on the exchange, and then roll back that block. And now they have their point back, but they also have spent it. And they have… you know, their USDT or whatever you know on Ethereum. And then now they’re able to get away with that hack on Handshake that dynamic exists to an extent. But interesting enough in order to actually attack the security of the naming system, which is the most important thing, it’s actually significantly more expensive. It’s… it’s basically it’s like insurmountable what you need to do is on Handshake, each name update each time you want to update the records of your name and point your domain name to a different server or ip or whatever. It takes about six hours for that update to reflect so that’s six hours worth of blocks that would potentially need to be undone in order to actually go and try to reverse a transaction. And the thing with the 51% attacks is if you have 51% of hash power, you can spend a certain amount to attack one block and you’ll have a 51% chance of doing that but to actually roll back six hours worth of blocks which is… you know, 36 blocks. Now that’s… that’s literally exponentially harder, it’s exponentially less likely because it’s… you know, 0.51 times, 0.51 times 0.51 all the way to the 386 power. (BLOCKCHAIN WAYNE: yeah) Now it’s actually very unlikely that you can pull that off. And then the threat model there is even if you pull that off, all you’re doing is preventing the name owner from updating their name records, so you can’t actually insert… you know, fake data, you can only roll it back to a historical state because a private key controls the name just like a private key controls the… you know, like a bitcoin wallet. And so the security of Handshake is actually very strong using this proof of work based model which is something that’s very unintuitive, because normally you would think that…. you know, other proof-of-work chains are actually fairly weak. 


BLOCKCHAIN WAYNE: Nice, nice, so for those that listen and maybe into mining, is… is it can… they mine… if someone wanted to get into the mining of HNS, could they do it with… do they need asics or can they use gpus? 


TIESHUN ROQUERRE: You know, I’m actually not as familiar with the mining space. We do have a discord that has a bunch of miners in there. They’ll be able to answer those questions much better than I can. But my understanding is I think you can do it with gpus. But I know there are asics for Handshake. Basically the… the algorithm for Handshake is kind of like a modified version of like blake 2b and the goal of it was for it to be a very simple hashing algorithm so that at launch that was also modified… so that at launch, there’d be no asics, but it was so simple that would be very easy for the entire market to basically build asics for it. The goal was to kind of instead of trying to do this like constant battle of… you know, for doing asic prevention which is kind of this like… you know, an infinite cat and mouse game, just make it so that it’s so easy that everyone can build asics for it. And then… now the market, you know overall is able to just go and fight fairly, and so there are asics on the market. But I’m not super aware of familiar with that… you know, ecosystem as much. 



BLOCKCHAIN WAYNE: Okay, yeah, I’m… I dabble a little bit. I did some gpu mining but… Yeah same, same here. I was just curious I figure that’s going to be a question people will have which you mentioned the discord channel, which is great so also leads me kind of to the next question just as we get close to wrapping up. Tell everybody some more, you mentioned the website, but where can they follow updates for Namebase and Handshake, both you mentioned the site and also any… any social media channels or handles that they can follow? 


TIESHUN ROQUERRE: Yeah definitely so I would just say if you want to find a quick list of links to go to just go to nb.hns.to so hns.to is a gateway and then nb is a name that we have on Handshake. And so we set up a… you know d-links page there, so just nb.hns.to and from there you can find a website or Twitter. We’re fairly active on Twitter, definitely go and give that a follow. And then from our website, you’ll also see a community section where you can go and… you know, join the discord that’s super active, so highly recommend that resource. And we also have a learning center as well where you can go through and just learn a bunch more about Handshake. And then if you know those resources are not enough definitely just note that in the discord. We’re active on there, so if you have any additional questions not only us but just the Handshake community members are all very supportive. So that’s probably the best way to go and get started. 



BLOCKCHAIN WAYNE: Awesome awesome, all great stuff, Tieshun, so I definitely appreciate the time today. I’m excited to get in learn more about it, that’s really what drew me to space… you know, we all kind of got drawn in by the… the potential to make big games. But once you stick around and realize all the potential implications with the projects, this is what I love to see versus projects that just designed to raise money. So because it’s actually giving us something we need with the censorship you mentioned with signal earlier, I didn’t get a chance to say anything about that but… you know, I don’t even have to look at signals followers on Twitter. All I know is every day I’m getting hundreds of alerts of contacts that I already have that are joining signal because you get in a little while. (TIESHUN ROQUERRE: Yeah) So it’s like… it’s… it’s like rapid fire on that one like people joining so… you know, it’s definitely definitely something the world needs decentralization can solve a lot of problems where power’s been abused, so… you know, what better thing and honestly before we talked, it’s something myself and probably most people don’t even consider is the centralized nature of the current domain naming system. And that whole process like you mentioned so… you know, hats off to you for explaining that and then tackling that problem… you know, before really mainly before the world realizes that. It’s… it’s a real problem that way you get ahead of the space and development. (TIESHUN ROQUERRE: Yeah 100%) Cool, any… thanks again for the time but any parting words before we go, for… anybody maybe either listening or watching this video? 


TIESHUN ROQUERRE: Yeah I would say… you know, something that I felt often in crypto is this like fomo and feeling of like, oh I’m in the space too late, I’m in this protocol too late, and I would say for anyone listening… you know, we’re still incredibly early not only in Handshake journey but just in the entire blockchain space overall. So if there’s any… you know, hesitancy that you’ve had to get involved and dive in definitely, now is the best time to plant the tree, right? There’s a saying the best time of planting the tree was 20 years ago, second best time is now. And that’s really the case for all of crypto today, and also for Handshake. Handshake is only a year old, but within that year, the value of the names has… you know, risen by thousands of percent the activity has grown exponentially. But we’re still incredibly early in the space… you know, Brave as a browser is integrating Handshake, and that’s just happening within the first year. But you imagine you project out what will happen in the next five years or ten years, and it’s really clear to see that we’re just still super early in this trend. And so if there’s any… you know, concern about being too late to jumping in to Handshake or anything, I would definitely say just lean in now. 


BLOCKCHAIN WAYNE: Awesome, great points, great points. All right Tieshun, thanks again for joining us today. I want to thank everybody for watching and we will catch you all in the next episode.


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